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British troops would go on to come to blows with Vichy forces during Operation Torch. The French fought the Allies in North Africa in November 1942, but never saw real conflict before Vichy France was taken over by the Allies in 1944. 1. Twenty years ago we had Johnny Cash, Bob Hope and Steve Jobs. After very difficult negotiations, Giraud agreed to suppress the racist laws, and to liberate Vichy prisoners of the South Algerian concentration camps. However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. The Bombing of France 1939 - 1945. In fact many governments had full relations with Vichy for much of the war. The British feared that Japanese Navy might use Madagascar as a base and thus cripple British trade and communications in the Indian Ocean. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? Numerous Jewish children were prohibited from going to school, something which not even Vichy had implemented in metropolitan France. Admiral Jean de Laborde was in command of the French warships based there. The island fell relatively quickly and the operation ended in victory for the British. In case some bad guys take a member of your family hostage and the SWAT team "invades" your home the save and liberate the member of your family so the situation was similar during the invasion of Normandy when France could not do much about the Germans occupying it's territory so the allied forces "invaded " France" and gradually liberated it from the oppression of the German forces! The Pétain government pledged that the fleet would never fall into German hands, but refused to send the fleet beyond Germany's reach, either to Britain, or even to far away territories of the French Empire, such as the West Indies. Admittedly it was also badly botched by Free French/British. Yes, but the idea was that the invasion of Vichy Colonies would result in Petain and the Vichy French people rallying behind war, as well as an alliance with Germany as they would be seen fighting for the same cause. The United States granted Vichy full diplomatic recognition, sending Admiral William D. Leahy to France as ambassador. by waldzee » 08 May 2012, 16:07, Post It was more of a grey status and thats the problem of HOI4. stolen), and a special Jewish Affair service was created, directed by Pierre Gazagne. Germany made Vichy France have its French armies and navies to fight the allies in French colonies. The Americans also hoped to encourage Vichy to resist German war demands, such as for the fleet, air bases in French-mandated Syria or to move war supplies through French territories in North Africa. Board index The Allies & the Neutral States France 1919-1945; Vichy French soldiers at Normandy. by The_Enigma » 08 May 2012, 09:00, Post 0 0. While tightly controlled by the Nazi regime, Vichy France was permitted the means to defend its African colonies against foreign invasion. Free France and its Free French Forces (French: France Libre et les Forces françaises libres) was the government-in-exile led by Charles de Gaulle during the Second World War, and its military forces, that continued to fight against the Axis powers as an Allied nation, following the Fall of France.Set up in London in June 1940, it organised and supported the Resistance in Occupied France, and established … The Vichy French fought the allies in Africa, Syria, and even Madagascar. Update: and i mean french vs french (vichy) (Free) Answer Save. Roosevelt disliked Charles de Gaulle, and agreed with Ambassador Leahy's view that he was an "apprentice dictator. The Americans ended relations when Germany occupied all of France in late 1942. ↳   Life in the Third Reich & Weimar Republic, ↳   Kriegsmarine surface ships and Kriegsmarine in general, ↳   Luftwaffe air units and Luftwaffe in general, ↳   German Strategy & General German Military Discussion, ↳   NSDAP, other party organizations & Government, ↳   The Ron Klages Panzer & other vehicles Section, ↳   Panzer & other vehicles - Photo threads, ↳   Axis Documents, Feldpost numbers, Postcards & Other Paper Items, ↳   The United Kingdom & its Empire and Commonwealth 1919-45, ↳   The Allies and the Neutral States in general, ↳   German Colonies and Overseas Expeditions, ↳   The end of the Ottoman Empire 1908-1923, ↳   Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier. As the US ambassador Admirial Leahey was told 'If you come with three divisions we will fight you, if you come with twenty we will welcome you'. [9], From mid-1940 until mid-1941 the USSR maintained diplomatic relations with the Vichy Regime. President Roosevelt and Secretary of State Cordell Hull hoped to use American influence to encourage those elements in the Vichy government opposed to military collaboration with Germany. Firstly many thanks for the well considered and intelligent responses to my first thread-starter on this Forum about "which German advanced weapon had the … Think of it as similar to the invasion of Kuwait in 1991, "Desert Storm", … The branch was soon split into two camps: those who escaped from France and joined the Free French Forces (Forces Françaises Libres) and those who stayed and flew for the French Armistice Air Force on behalf of the Vichy government. During the battle for Dakar, Vichy had launched retaliatory bombing raids on Gibraltar, causing fairly minor damage but killing several civilians. Both the Free French and Vichy French pretended to be “the French” at this time. Germany wanted food, minerals, and industrial productions, as well as volunteers to work in German factories. by phylo_roadking » 08 May 2012, 15:02, Post 2 Answers. Sid... do you have more details on the French plans and the intel item. The French State, popularly known as Vichy France, as led by Marshal Philippe Pétain after the Fall of France in 1940 before Nazi Germany, was quickly recognized by the Allies, as well as by the Soviet Union, until 30 June 1941 and Operation Barbarossa. This will probably lead up to a painful steamrolling of France by Germany. One problem is Hilter misjudged the French intent & thought they would not fight a war over Poland or the USSR. Germany and France fighting a defensive war against the Soviets is about the only thing what could create a real alliance between Germany and France. I depend on what you call “the French”. Other French colonies had the decision to switch sides enforced more strenuously. The Vichy French fought the allies in Africa, Syria, and even Madagascar. As far as the French are concerned yes part of the Nation was pro-Germany, Vichy France (French: Régime de Vichy) is the common name of the French State (État français) headed by Marshal Philippe Pétain during World War II. Indeed - and also...French colonial authorities and their respective military commanders had a greater degree of independent action than, say, a period. They may have been legally bound to obey the legal government of France (the Vichy regime) but it was obviously a German puppet and the Allies+Free French were trying to defeat Germany and restore France, hardly malicious intent. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? While the American commanders favored landing in occupied Europe as soon as possible (Operation Sledgehammer), the British commanders believed that such a move would end in disaster. French General Henri Giraud was slipped out of Vichy France, offered the post of commander in chief of French forces in North Africa after the invasion. Of the 17 officers and 376 enlisted men of trusted with the task of taking port Oran, nine officers and 180 enlisted men were killed or presumed dead while … The Vichy French Military were the armed forces of Vichy France, which was founded in 1940, and it lasted until 1942, when the Germans occupied Vichy France during Operation Anton. In March 1945, after mainland France had been liberated and the war situation looking increasingly grim for the Japanese, they staged a coup d'état in French Indochina and dissolved it, creating puppet states of its constituent parts. 10 years ago. Wasn't it the attack on the French fleet anchored in Mers El Khebir (Operation Catapult) , taking the life of 1250+ French sailors, which turned French citizens into "Anti-British" ? Initially, Winston Churchill was ambivalent about de Gaulle and dropped ties with Vichy only when it became clear that it would not fight the Germans. German and Italian Air Force aircraft, staging through the French possession of Syria, intervened in the fighting in small numbers. But this took time. A scenario like that is improbable to the point of ASB. Vichy France was established during WW2 by the German occupational army it was a puppet government set up and controlled by the Nazis during WW2. Whereas the majors didn't hand their best tech and equipment over to their allies, they did often sell or give them the next-best things, be it Shermans for UK or StuGs for Finland. They may have been legally bound to obey the legal government of France (the Vichy regime) but it was obviously a German puppet and the Allies+Free French were trying to defeat Germany and restore France, hardly malicious intent. When France declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939, following the German invasion of Poland, the French military spent eight months watching and … 1 decade ago. This led it into overt conflict with the allies and understated tension with Germany. In time, the majority of the colonies tended to switch to the Allied side peacefully in response to persuasion and to changing events. In July 1941, the Soviet Union broke off diplomatic relations with Vichy France. Roosevelt favored trying to get Vichy France into the allied camp, he did not trust The Free French. Hence much of the indecision of the French leaders. However, Germany never bothers to take back Vichy France's territories in Africa, they only attack metropolitan France. However France broke with the United Kingdom after the destruction of the French Fleet at Mers-el-Kebir. After all, France had signed an armistice with Adolf Hitler on June 22, 1940, within weeks of being overrun by German soldiers. [4], Vichy France continued to maintain relations with the Republic of China government led by Chiang Kai-shek—exiled to Chongqing in the Chinese interior after the fall of the capital Nanjing to the Japanese in 1937. Consequently, Force H opened fire on the French ships, killing 1,297 French military personnel, including nearly 1,000 French sailors when the Bretagne blew up. … Favorite Answer. This was not enough security for Winston Churchill, who feared that the French fleet could wind up in German hands and be used against British ships, which were vital to maintaining worldwide shipping and communications. The middle & upper classes saw the chaos of the 1940 defeat as nearly the worst thing possible, with its contiuation as the worst thing. The Vichy French sided with the Nazis the enemies who took over their country, and against the allies (France's friends) because.....they weren't France. Edit Vichy France existed during the second world war as a Nazi puppet state, half of its territory (North West) was occupied by German's army while the rest of it was considered "free". After Vichy France was created, did the French soldiers fight against the Allies? The Pétain government in Vichy controlled the rest until November 1942, when Germany took it all over. Vice-Admiral Somerville, with Force H under his command, was instructed to deal with the large squadron in port at Mers El Kébir harbor near Oran in July 1940. Vichy France was recognised by most Axis and neutral powers, including the US and the USSR. On a 3-6 they refuse to fight and join the Allied side (this can be change to 1-3, and 4-6 if the odds don’t seem fair). Considering how explosive anti-Nazi sentiment was after their liberation (rape and humiliation of Nazi sympathizers), it blows my mind how the puppet government could find troops to essentially fight FOR their historical rivals that had just destroyed their country. Now we have no Cash, no Hope and no Jobs.... To answer the original question from another perspective... because the Germans literally had a gun at the head of the French in Europe. Lv 4. When the Allies invaded North Africa in Nov., 1942, Hitler annulled the armistice of 1940 and occupied all France. Even De gaulle was sentenced to death by the Vichy Government. To what extent did the French Resistance assist in the allies liberation of France? The result was shock and resentment towards Britain within the French Navy, and by the general French public. ... April, and May 1940. Re: Why did Vichy France fight the allies? Operation Menace was a plan to capture the strategic port of Dakar in French West Africa, which was under the control of the Vichy French. Almost all died at the hands of the Allies, not the Germans. It can be considered as a very bad phase of France. Considering how explosive anti-Nazi sentiment was after their liberation (rape and humiliation of Nazi sympathizers), it blows my mind how the puppet government could find troops to essentially fight FOR their historical rivals that had just destroyed their country. After the fall of France in 1940, French Somaliland declared loyalty to the Vichy France. While a few French colonies went over to the Free French immediately, many remained loyal to Vichy France. by Sid Guttridge » 09 May 2012, 12:32, Post Pétain spent four years in Vichy and after the Allied invasion … After the Allied landings in French North Africa - in November, 1942 the Führer's order for us to advance into the unoccupied part of France was prompted by his conviction that the Allies would go on from Africa to invade southern France. BELFAST said: You would need to the Soviets to be much stronger economically. Because he had little choice. It was there to help control the French population and add minor military support to the Germans. It included the actual French territory without the Alsace, Lorraine and the colonies. Due to this, Germany will lose a … His timeline had the French sit by while he conquered the Poles, the then the USSR. Even after the battles were fought, however, Vichy France did not join the war, and the Vichy French troops engaged there were usually repatriated by the Allies after operations were over. The additional participation of Free French forces in the Syrian operation was controversial within Allied circles. Canada maintained diplomatic relations until the occupation of Southern France (Case Anton) by Germany and Italy in November 1942. Democratic rule was restored in French Algeria, and the Communists and Jews liberated from the concentration camps.[15]. By that time, the Italians had been defeated and the French colony had since then isolated by a British blockade. 2 0. Recruiting was a failure & the formation was never more than a glorified company, which did fight in Tunisia. Lv 7. Explore the dramatic and unexpected defeat of the French forces in WW2. This was however not the end for the French Air Force. Post The Vichy French air force was relatively strong at the start of the campaign. Sid... thanks. ... tend to lay out the steps as being France + her Eastern European allies > USSR (And then the US in the second book. The invasion, known as Operation Torch, was launched after the Soviet Union had pressed the United States and Britain to start operations in Europe, and open a second front to help reduce the pressure of German forces on the Russian troops. It ended in a much-publicized handshake between the two, but in fact their discussions had been entirely general and no decisions had been made. Giraud became Darlan's successor in French Africa with Allied support. Had Khalkin Gol happened during Barbarossa I'm pretty sure it would have escalated into a full blown conflict. Canada maintained diplomatic relations until the occupation of Southern France (Case Anton) by Germany and Italy in November 1942.[1]. It was an independent ally of Nazi Germany however that was a small part and the majority of the French fought the Nazis throughout their occupation of France . However, alarmed by the growing threat of invasion, Vichy dispatched a fighter group from Algeria. But Vichy French with the core of the colonial army: yes absolutely. Steve. False rumours abounded that France had made major concessions regarding colonies and German control of French ports and the French fleet. As a result, Madagascar was invaded by British and Commonwealth forces. The most important such action was the scuttling of the French fleet in Toulon on 27 November 1942, preventing its capture by the Axis. The additional participation of Free French Lebanon had been declared persona non grata in his host country a of. Divisions and jealousies was created, directed by Pierre Gazagne the day before Torch... 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